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Talk:Kingdom of Daventry
King's Quest Companion Chronicles of Daventry, Part I broken down The picture to the right follows the directions given in the KQC novelization of KQ1. The story was designed to be a working walkthrough, and can be followed to actually beat the game. One will notice that 'wrap around' actually occurs during his journey, that he gets 'teleported' accross the map (whenever he goes underground/carried by condor/or land of the clouds). Thse kind of examples actually occur in the game, and there is no one way to allign the KQ1 map so that a true border can be defined (as many areas overlap between columns, from north to south).Baggins 19:23, November 24, 2010 (UTC) Castle position in KQ8 (geography of Daventry old discussion) The article says: "The royal family moved to it at some point in between King's Quest 7 and 8, for some unknown reason." But as far as I know the castle exterior isn't shown in KQ6 and KQ7, so the family possibly moved already earlier. What a pity that the castle's position is shown at the end of KQ5. If we could only ignore this fact, then the solution could be so simple: Crispin teleported the castle to the wrong place. You know, he is always a little absent-minded. ;) : . Actually, the castle in KQ8 is different than the one in KQ6 and 7. We can see enough from the inside of the castle in king's quest 6 to know its not the same castle seen in KQ8 physically(in fact the KQ6 castle inside is the same as seen since King's Quest 1, including the wall alcove, and the benches for the court along the side), and there is a tiny bit of information about the castle in King's Quest Companion for the era of KQ8 implying its location hadn't moved. With the discussion of its location south of Lake Maylie, as well as shown on the map. The exterior of the castle as seen in KQ8 loading screen for the castle is nothing like the castle seen in previous games at all, which is more evidence that a new castle was made rather than a castle being moved(unless you subscribe to what we see in KQ8 as just being new designers just re-imagining the world, and intending the castle to be the same one, while ignoring the previous games). Baggins 10:40, 14 October 2005 (EDT) ::Note:the above artwork map was from an earlier discussion predating information given by Mark Seibert that confirmed Castle Daventry is one and the same. The wiki's articles reflect the later fact, and instead go with the idea of 'magical flux' and a changing world of Daventry, an explanation given in the King's Quest Companion to explainaway/retcon any geographical inconistencies between sources including itself. Baggins (talk) 02:56, August 12, 2014 (UTC) Geography of Daventry (ongoing discussion) I wanted to say--with regard to the shifting of Castle Daventry and alteration of the surrounding landscape as shown in KQ8, is it possible that perhaps Shamir was asked to raise it up on a hill (for whatever reason) sometime between KQ6 and KQ8? I mean KQ6 tells us he has the power to restore a ferry, and he seems to be ALMOST boundless in power...It might be another logical, but of course speculative reason. Also, would be nice to know exactly how big Castle Daventry is--How it's set up. I tend to believe that the part of Daventy that KQ1 occured in was in a less populated area in the north of Daventry, perhaps near the land's borders, and the town of Daventry and Connor's village lie father south, bordered by the Old Wood. Connor's village might be to the south east (if you were standing inside Castle Daventry that is). thumb|Map with locations from KQ3 placed in there positions in KQ1 :Please sign your posts with four tildes '~'. :Here is a quicky composites of KQ3 era maps, and from KQ4 era to KQ5 era maps from the companions. For the first map its not a perfect match up of course. I think that rather obvious beach on the northwest side of the continent in Derek's map is intended to be the beach that Alexander landed on in the game, or rather a stylized representation of the beach. The second composite might fit closer the beach (although it doesn't fit the scale of the ingame map). The in game map places that beach about midway on the continent (see in-game charts). :For the second map, you'll notice the two maps actually pretty much do overlap each other, and show proper extension of Serenia appearing on the world. The Great Mountain spine to the east and previous map overlap near perfectly in both maps. That unmarked eastern land beyond the great mountains would more or less be the location of the Kingdom of Sorrow. :By, KQ6 era map though, the whole kingdom shifted to the south eastern side of the continent. in KQ8 its back to the western edge of the continent.Baggins 02:38, September 29, 2010 (UTC) : :Is it possible the perspective of the KQ8 overworld map was looking at Daventry from the perspective of slightly over Serenia--the land, not the continent? Perhaps the Gnomes Realm and Barren region were simply between Daventry and Serenia. '~'. ::You missed the four '~', type ~~~~, to sign your post. ::The Barren Region, Swamp, Gnomes Realm, are north of Daventry based on information in the game manual, so yes, they would be between Daventry and Serenia. The swamp is roughly where Daventry's northern farmlands and Sinofas marsh was in the The Floating Castle, just beyond the north eastern Old Wood. That north/south river that Graham flies over briefly in KQV, might even be what inspired the Merelee River in the novels. ::The Gnomes Realm, Frozen Reaches, Barren Region are roughly in the position of the north coast mountain range in KQ3 (when Serenia was missing from the continent) where Alexander landed in KQ3, and would later be known as part of the great mountains in KQV. At least those are the only mountain range in the area, known other than the Door into Mountain which has been portrayed as both a single peak located centrally within the middle of the kingdom of Daventry (that you can walk around as in KQ1), or as but one of the mountains, that make up the great mountain range bordering Daventry on its eastern border as portrayed in KQ3 (see also fifth composite). ::I don't know if you have looked at the other Companion maps, or King's Questions which places the Kingdom of Daventry far to the east coast of the continent inland (see fourth composite), of course the scale on both maps is different. Those maps place the kingdom in a much different place than it appears in KQ8 of course, with the one in KQ8 placing the castle in an area looking over the west coast of the continent (or newly aligned west coast). In addition the KQ8 map like most of the maps has stylized elements. For example it portrays the Dimension of Death as circular with he river surrounding it on all sides. In the game its square, and the river of life only passes by one side of the dimension. As well as showing the Realm of the Sun directly above Daventry. It's shown in the game that its actually deep in space, and possibly partially in a seperate universe (as he is teleported/flown there in a cutscene).Baggins 23:04, October 2, 2010 (UTC) :::Ok, the next map I've added is similar to the KQ1 and KQ3 map. But this time I've inserted the KQ5 locations. Since KQ6 Hintbook says that the lake is Lake Maylie. I have placed it on top of Lake Maylie. I have placed the hill overlooking Castle Daventry over the section of river with the Castle Daventry seen in the distance.Baggins 19:20, August 26, 2011 (UTC) ::::Continuing from the previous two maps, I've gone back and looked the maps from perspective of shifting areas largely left or right along the 'wrap-around', but not necessarily keeping alignment of the vertical wrap around (especially for areas that 'shifted drastically' (see Door into Mountain and Ancient Well for example). This version more or less shows the KQ3 layout (with a slight split to add in the KQ5 castle valley), and a shifting the old locations of the Raging River over to leave the blank space (as seen in the KQ3 magic map) where town of Daventry is located. Then inserting the map of the town of Daventry from KQ8 to represent a visual interpretation of the town. Some aras are shifted south to more or less keep them in line of their KQ1 related geography (and it doesn't figure in how the mountains wrap around the edge of Daventry). Perhaps some of the right hand stuff and what was more or less the old river needs to be shifted further south to leave space for the mountains to wrap around to the north (perhaps in the next image as a followup to this image)Baggins (talk) 08:55, December 20, 2014 (UTC) thumb Thought this might be important to note. Here is an additional map using the Manannan chart (as it has the most continent detail in size compard to the pirate chart).I overlayed the KCQ 1st Edition map over it as they relate to each other. Please note that in KQ3 there is apparently western extension of land that does not appear in the 1st Edition map. Gwydion lands about central part of the continent (as seen in the pirate chart). So this shows while KQC is based on the KQ3 map, even it different than the KQ3 maps. Alternatively if the KQC 1st Edition map was inserted on the left protuberance this would place the mountain range to the middle, although this kinda screws with the map scale as it is not as big as the right half of the continent.Baggins (talk) 15:19, March 31, 2013 (UTC) The next addition is a general map of the Great Mountains region made up from locations in KQ1/3, KQ5, and KQ8. Still a work in progress. It appears the Half Dome valley seen in KQ3 and KQ5 is likely the same location but seen from two separate locations, an area closer to Serenia to the north, and another area closer to Daventry to the south. Also included in this are the maps of the Frozen Reaches, Barren Region, and Swamp in their general location in relation to the other locations. This map is still a work in progress and most likely has scale issues (each ingame graphic are drawn to different scales to each other). Moving the goat pen (but keeping it near the well) to represent some of the interpretations of the pen in King's Quest Companion maps. Moving the Stump and Log to represent its rough location in See No Weevil. However, of course most of the 'river area' and the two islands from KQ1 would likely have become the area where the town was built based on the information in The Official Book of Daventry, so technically should probably be removed from the map altogether to avoid confusion. Obviously as seen by location of the gnomes shack the entire river is dry.Baggins (talk) 02:42, August 12, 2014 (UTC) Category:Fan maps Scale of Daventry While there is no exact way to tell the scale of distance in KQ1's Daventry or even Daventry as it appears in KQ3 or later games. There are a couple of interesting clues. In the remake of KQ1 for example is a line that states that the Ancient Well lies nearby Edward's castle. Now in the game its actually about 5-6 screens away from the castle in most directions. It is literally almost the entire map across going 'east' (the map is a 9 x 6 square with wrap around). The shortest distance between the castle is about 4 screens heading west (which is about little under half of the map in distance). From an in game perspective then if its supposed to be 'considered close' to the castle, the closest it will ever get is if one goes west to reach it, from the western screen of the castle. But its only up to 2 screens more away going east. Which all seems to indicate that its a rather small country in KQ1 not much more than a few kilometers at best, or a couple of miles. From the scale used in KQ3, its only about 2 screens away from the castle, or even closer to the castle than it was portrayed in the original game (but as discussed previously there are many issues as its now located next to the door into mountain (directly west, rather than southwest), when originally those two areas were about three screens away in their shortest distance heading west from the door). But in general the Ancient Well exists 'nearby' the castle is relative to the fact that its portrayed as a rather small kingdom to begin with (even if there are sometimes details you can see in the distance, that the player never gets to visit which would imply more areas of the kingdom that the player passes through). In later sources the town which is said to be build up to the edge of the well according to The Official Book of King's Quest, is not much more than a few hundred feet from the entrance of the castle in the novels and King's Quest Companion, which state the town literally lies in the shadow of the castle. The size of the town is never specifically detailed, but based on information in the The Official Book of King's Quest, must take up almost half of the KQ1 map (more or less the 'river regions' including the two former islands where Leprechauns and Gnome lived, to the Ancient Well, and the Door into Mountain). Of course the novels also seem to discuss Daventry that had extended much further to the west, and regions that extend east of the town (about 4 miles away). So Daventry gained over 3 miles to the east between the time of KQ1, and KQ3 (although it lost quite a bit at the time of KQ3 see the stone walls put up). Those areas are not part of the original Daventry as seen in KQ1 (assuming that information about the Ancient Well being close to Daventry, and information from the Official Book of King's Quest are taken into account). This would seem to indicate the space shown in KQ1 is probably less than 1-3 miles on its own. The novels also state that Daventry had grown to four hundred and eighty-seven heptans-square under Graham. But its never exactly clear what a heptan actually is. But the novels do seem to suggest that Daventry is not much more a few miles across from north to south, or east to west (if all things went as planned the Piper would only need a day or two to pass through Daventry from north to south). Alexander seemingly crosses the western edge of the kingdom in the Floating Castle in about a day (although technically he may have still been in forests that were under Daventry's jurisdiction and not necessarily outside of the kingdom when he was visiting Morowen), and Seen No Weevil, and Kingdom of Sorrow implies perhaps that the kingdom extends to the sea to the south and west (or at least there are areas that lie beyond the Old Woods). The Old Woods are in the novels considered the general boundaries of the kingdom and their own kingdom. But are references to roads that pass between sections of the Old Woods that are still part of Daventry, and references to Daventry's civilization to the south and west. Then of course there is the scale of KQ3, which places Alexander's travels from Llewdor to Daventry not much longer than three days total (according to the Companion). Which suggests rather small scale for the kingdom, and even surrounding lands. The novels seem contradictory though as it implies regions of Daventry that are several hundred to several thousand miles away from each other which seems insurmountable to try to travel by foot in only a few days time. King's Quest Companion suggests that Daventry/Serenia is a continent. The Official Book of King's Quest however might suggest that Daventry/Serenia are actually more accurately an 'island' to be something of a much smaller scale, and allow for the travel time seen in KQ3. Of course it might technically be a 'micro-continent' or a 'continental fragment' some of which are as small as islands but are continents by geographical processes (New Zealand and some of the nearby islands make up a micro-continent, or depending on the debate a mega-island are fragments from previous continents that were broken off). But certainly smaller and opposed to the 3,000 miles reference would suggest it to be. Baggins (talk) 16:13, December 20, 2014 (UTC) Daventry Town in relation to the Companionmaps Here are some examples of the location of Daventry town in relationship to the details given in The Official Book of King's Quest, and appearance of DAventry in the first three editions of the King's Quest Companion. The KQ8 map of the town of Daventry, is used to represent the town of Daventry. Based on location of Land of Leprechauns and Gnome Isle the town would have to be north of Castle Daventry on first editionmap (and only south once 'wrap around' is taken into consideration). The same more or less occurs with the second map with the gnome and leprechaun islands located north of the Castle, and only would be south via the 'wrap around' effect. In the third things are a bit more complacted with the Gnome island shown on one side of the map, and wrapping around to the Leprechaun Isle on the otherside. TO portray this I divided the KQ8 town map and put half on each side. Perhaps the town of Daventry seemingly being on the northside of the Castle in KQ8's world map is not so out of place as it seems, and perhaps wraparound is still in effect somehow even at that time in Daventry's history. Incidently based on The Official Book of King's Quest and these maps, it would seem that the town takes up about a quarter of the kingdom altogether, at least the parts of the kingdom portrayed in KQ1, and KQ3. The next image the landmarks of KQ3 and KQ5 in relationship to their locations in KQ3 maps, with the KQ8 town of daventry to represent the towns location as stated The Official Book of King's Quest. All outside locations beyond the castle, or the stone walls are unknown.Baggins (talk) 22:54, December 20, 2014 (UTC)